Pendlay Row vs Barbell Row Reddit

The 15% Difference That Ends the Pendlay vs Barbell Row Debate

The debate over the Pendlay row vs barbell row reddit sees online is settled when you realize the Pendlay builds explosive power using about 15% less weight, while the classic barbell row builds sheer mass through constant tension. You've seen the arguments. One person swears Pendlays added 50 pounds to their deadlift. Another claims standard barbell rows gave them a back the size of a barn door. They're both right, but they're training for two completely different outcomes. The frustration comes from trying to find one “best” answer when the right choice depends entirely on your primary goal.

Let's cut through the noise. The Pendlay row is for strength and power. The barbell row is for size and thickness. That's it. The Pendlay row, with its strict, parallel-to-the-floor torso and dead stop on the ground for every single rep, forces you to generate maximum power from a standstill. This has a direct carryover to your deadlift, specifically the ability to break the bar off the floor. Because it eliminates the stretch reflex-the little bounce you get at the bottom of a standard row-it's a pure test of concentric strength. This is why you will lift less weight, typically 15-20% less than your standard barbell row.

On the other hand, the conventional barbell row, performed at a 45-degree angle without the bar touching the floor, is a hypertrophy machine. It keeps your lats and upper back under continuous tension throughout the entire set. That extended time under tension is a primary driver of muscle growth. You can handle more weight, and the eccentric (lowering) phase of the lift further contributes to muscle damage and repair. If your goal is a thicker, wider back that fills out a t-shirt, the classic barbell row is your tool.

Why Your Barbell Row Form is Secretly a Cheat Rep

The biggest argument for the Pendlay row isn't just about power; it's about honesty. The Pendlay row forces you to be honest with the weight you're lifting. Because each rep starts from a dead stop on the floor with your torso locked parallel, it's nearly impossible to use momentum. You can't use 'body English' to heave the weight up. It's just you versus the bar. This is why so many lifters who think they can row 225 lbs for 8 reps get humbled when they can barely manage 185 lbs for 5 strict Pendlay reps.

Your standard barbell row, in contrast, is incredibly easy to cheat. When fatigue sets in around rep 6 or 7, what happens? Your torso starts to rise, your hips shoot back, and you use a violent jerk to get the bar to your chest. You're not lifting with your back anymore; you're just moving weight. That 45-degree angle creeps up to 60, then 70 degrees, effectively shortening the range of motion and turning the exercise into a glorified, sloppy shrug. You might feel strong moving 225 lbs, but if your torso angle changes by 30 degrees, your lats are probably only doing the work required for 175 lbs. The rest is just momentum.

The Pendlay row eliminates this variable. It's a self-correcting exercise. If you can't lift the bar off the floor without your hips shooting up, the weight is too heavy. Period. This built-in form check ensures that every single rep is productive and targets the intended muscles: your lats, rhomboids, and rear delts. It teaches you to stay tight and generate force through your back, a skill that pays massive dividends in your deadlift and squat.

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The 3-Step Protocol to Choose and Master Your Row

Instead of endlessly debating which row is superior, use the right tool for the right job. Here’s a simple protocol to integrate both movements for a stronger, bigger back. Stop thinking in terms of "better" and start thinking in terms of programming.

Step 1: Define Your Primary Goal (Power vs. Mass)

First, decide what your main focus is for the next 8-12 week training block. You can't chase two rabbits at once.

• If your goal is a bigger deadlift or athletic power: Make the Pendlay row your primary horizontal pulling movement. Program it after your main deadlift or squat session. A great starting point is 5 sets of 5 reps (5x5). Use a weight that is challenging but allows you to maintain a perfectly flat, parallel back on every rep. Your last rep should be a grind, but not a form-breaking disaster.
• If your goal is maximum back thickness (hypertrophy): Make the classic barbell row your go-to. Program this on your back or upper body day. Aim for 3-4 sets in the 8-12 rep range. The key here is control. Focus on a 1-second pull, a 1-second squeeze at the top where you try to touch your shoulder blades together, and a controlled 2-second negative.

Step 2: Master the Form (The Hip Hinge is Non-Negotiable)

Flawless form is what separates a back-builder from a back-breaker. Film yourself from the side to check your technique.

• Pendlay Row Execution: Stand with a shoulder-width grip. Hinge at your hips until your torso is perfectly parallel to the floor. Your shins should be vertical. This is a non-negotiable starting position. Brace your core like you're about to be punched. Explosively pull the bar to your lower sternum. Do not let your torso rise. Lower the bar under control, let it settle completely on the floor for a full second, and then begin the next rep. If you deadlift 315 lbs, start with no more than 135 lbs to master this.
• Barbell Row Execution: Use the same grip. Hinge at the hips until your torso is at roughly a 45-degree angle. Your back must remain flat. Let the bar hang just below your kneecaps. Pull the bar towards your navel, driving your elbows up and back. Squeeze your lats hard at the top. Lower the bar under control over 2-3 seconds, feeling a stretch in your lats, but do not let the plates touch the floor until the set is over.

Step 3: The "Best of Both Worlds" Programming

For the intermediate or advanced lifter, you don't have to choose. You can program both movements within the same week to get the benefits of each. This is an effective way to build a back that is both strong and muscular.

• Day 1 (Strength Focus): Place this after your heavy lower body compound movement.
• Deadlifts or Squats: Work up to a heavy top set.
• Pendlay Rows: 5 sets of 5 reps (Focus on explosive power).
• Day 2 (Hypertrophy Focus): This would be your dedicated back or upper body day.
• Pull-Ups: 4 sets to failure.
• Barbell Rows: 4 sets of 8-12 reps (Focus on squeeze and control).
• Lat Pulldowns: 3 sets of 12-15 reps.

Week 1 Will Feel Wrong. That's the Point.

When you start incorporating strict Pendlay rows, your ego is going to take a hit. Be prepared for it. The first two weeks are about motor learning, not moving massive weight. Here's a realistic timeline of what to expect.

• Week 1-2: The Humbling Phase. The weight will feel shockingly heavy. If you were barbell rowing 225 lbs with loose form, you might struggle to Pendlay row 155 lbs with perfect technique. Your lower back will feel fatigued from holding a static, parallel position. This is your erector spinae muscles working as stabilizers, and they will adapt. Do not add weight during this phase. Your only goal is to perform every single rep with perfect, unchanging form.
• Week 3-4: The "Click" Phase. The movement pattern will start to feel natural. You'll feel more stable and powerful. Your deadlift will begin to feel faster off the floor. This is the signal to start progressive overload. Begin adding 5 pounds to the bar each week. Your mind-muscle connection with your entire back will improve, and you'll feel your lats engaging in a way you never have before.
• Week 5-6 and Beyond: The Progress Phase. The weights will start climbing steadily. The 155 lbs that felt impossible in week 1 is now your final warm-up set. You'll notice your upper back looks denser, and your lats feel wider. This is where the dual benefits of strength and foundational muscle building from the Pendlay row start to become visible. You've built the foundation of honest strength, and now you can build the house.

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Frequently Asked Questions

Pendlay Rows and Lower Back Safety

When performed correctly with a braced core and a neutral spine, the Pendlay row is one of the safest back exercises. The dead stop on the floor between each rep gives your lower back a momentary break, unlike the constant strain of a heavy barbell row. Injury risk comes from rounding your back or using a weight that's too heavy, forcing you to jerk it off the floor.

The Yates Row vs. Other Variations

The Yates row, performed with a more upright torso (around 70 degrees) and an underhand grip, shifts the focus heavily onto the lats and biceps. It's a pure mass-builder but offers less carryover to deadlift strength and can put more strain on the biceps tendons. It's a great accessory, but not a replacement for a foundational Pendlay or barbell row.

Using Straps for Rows

Use lifting straps for your heaviest sets. Your back muscles are significantly stronger than your grip muscles. Don't let a weak grip limit the amount of weight your back can handle. If your goal is to build a big back, train your back. Train your grip separately with exercises like dead hangs or farmer's walks.

Can Pendlays Replace Deadlifts

Absolutely not. The Pendlay row is an accessory exercise designed to build a stronger deadlift, not replace it. It strengthens the first phase of the pull-breaking the bar from the floor. It does not train the lockout, nor does it provide the same full-body systemic stress that makes the deadlift such a powerful overall strength builder.

Barbell Row Grip Width

Grip width changes which muscles are emphasized. A closer, shoulder-width grip will target the lats more directly. A wider grip, similar to a snatch grip, will bring more of your upper back, rear deltoids, and rhomboids into the movement. For general back development, a grip slightly wider than your shoulders is the most effective starting point.