Kipping Pull Ups vs Strict Pull Ups Reddit

One Pull-Up Builds 30% More Muscle. The Other Is Just Faster.

To settle the kipping pull ups vs strict pull ups reddit debate: strict pull-ups build foundational strength and up to 30% more muscle, while kipping pull-ups are a tool for metabolic conditioning and completing workouts faster. You're probably here because you've seen people in your gym doing both and you're wondering which one is 'right' and which one is 'cheating'. The truth is, they are two completely different exercises with two completely different goals. Thinking one is a substitute for the other is the single biggest mistake you can make.

A strict pull-up is a pure strength movement. From a dead hang, you use only the muscles in your back, shoulders, and arms to pull your chin over the bar. The entire goal is muscular tension and control. This is how you build the raw strength and muscle mass that makes you genuinely stronger.

A kipping pull-up is a skill-based movement designed for speed and efficiency. It uses momentum generated from your hips and core to propel your body upward, minimizing the work your pulling muscles have to do. The goal is not to build strength, but to perform a high volume of reps in the shortest amount of time, which drives your heart rate up and tests your conditioning.

Comparing them is like comparing a heavy, controlled back squat to a box jump. Both use your legs, but one is for building maximum strength and the other is for developing explosive power. You wouldn't say a box jump is 'cheating' a squat. They're different tools for different jobs. The problem arises when people try to use the kipping pull-up as a shortcut to a strict pull-up. This never works and is the fastest way to injure your shoulder.

Why Your Body Can't Tell The Difference Between a Kip and an Injury

Your shoulder joint is the most mobile joint in your body, which also makes it the most unstable. A strict pull-up strengthens and stabilizes this joint. A kipping pull-up, done without a proper strength base, violently tests its limits. The core issue isn't the 'up' phase of the kip; it's the uncontrolled 'down' phase.

When you perform a strict pull-up, you control the eccentric (lowering) portion of the lift. This controlled lowering is crucial for building muscle and reinforcing good movement patterns. When you kip, you essentially launch your body over the bar and then drop back down, catching your full bodyweight at the bottom with your arms extended. This uncontrolled drop can place 3 to 4 times your bodyweight in acute force on the small stabilizing muscles and connective tissues of your shoulder. Your muscles aren't prepared for that load, so the stress goes directly into the joint capsule, rotator cuff, and labrum.

This is why you hear about so many shoulder injuries in athletes who kip without first building a foundation. They lack the fundamental strength to absorb the shock of the eccentric movement. Their body isn't ready for the ballistic force. Without the ability to do at least 5, and ideally 8-10, strict pull-ups, your shoulders simply do not have the structural integrity to handle the demands of kipping. You are borrowing momentum to achieve a position your muscles are not yet strong enough to handle on their own. This is the definition of an injury risk. Before you ever attempt a kipping pull-up, you must earn the right by building a foundation of pure, unadulterated strength.

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The Only Safe Path From Strict Pull-Ups to Kipping

If your goal is to compete in CrossFit or improve your workout times, learning to kip is a valid skill. But there is a non-negotiable order of operations. Trying to kip before you have the foundational strength is like trying to build a roof before you've laid the foundation for the house. Here is the exact 3-step protocol to follow.

Step 1: Master the Foundation (The 5-Rep Rule)

Before you even watch a video on how to kip, you must be able to perform 5 consecutive, dead-hang strict pull-ups. This is the absolute minimum. We're not talking about chin-barely-grazing-the-bar reps. We mean full range of motion: starting from a dead hang with arms fully extended, pulling until your chin is clearly over the bar, and lowering yourself back down under control. This 5-rep benchmark proves you have the baseline strength in your lats, biceps, and scapular stabilizers to control your bodyweight and protect your shoulder joints. If you cannot do this, your only focus should be on getting stronger with exercises like band-assisted pull-ups, negative pull-ups, and inverted rows. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, do not attempt to kip.

Step 2: Build Scapular Control and Stability

Once you've hit your 5 strict pull-ups, the next step isn't to start flailing around. It's to build the specific stability needed for dynamic movement. This involves two key exercises. First, the active hang. Simply hang from the bar and, without bending your arms, pull your shoulder blades down and back, lifting your body an inch or two. Hold for 30-60 seconds. This teaches your rotator cuff to stabilize the shoulder. Second, scapular pull-ups. From that same active hang, perform small pulling motions using only your shoulder blades. Do 3 sets of 10-12 reps. You should master these for 2-3 weeks. This step is the bridge between static strength and dynamic control, and it's what 90% of people skip.

Step 3: Learn the Kip Swing (Without the Pull)

Now you can finally learn the kip itself, but you will not add the pull yet. Hang from the bar and practice transitioning between a 'hollow body' position (abs tight, pelvis tucked, like a banana) and an 'arch' or 'superman' position (chest forward, back arched). This is the pendulum motion that generates power. The movement comes from your core and shoulders, not from kicking your legs. Practice this for several sessions until you can string together 10-15 smooth, connected kip swings. Only when this swing feels rhythmic and controlled do you add the final piece: using the momentum at the peak of your arch to pull your chin over the bar. Because you already have the strict strength, this final step will feel surprisingly easy.

Your Pull-Up Progress: The First 90 Days

Progress in bodyweight training is not linear, and understanding the timeline will keep you from getting frustrated. The journey for strict strength and kipping skill look very different.

Month 1: The Foundation Phase (Strict Strength)

If you're starting from zero, your goal for the first 30-60 days is singular: achieve your first strict pull-up. This will feel like the hardest part of the journey. You will use tools like heavy resistance bands, slow negative reps (jumping to the top and lowering for 5-10 seconds), and lots of rowing variations. Progress is measured in seconds added to your negatives or using a lighter band. Getting that first rep can take anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks. This is normal. Do not get discouraged.

Month 2: Building Reps (Strict Strength)

Once you have 1-2 strict pull-ups, your goal is to get to the magic number of 5. This often takes another 4-8 weeks. You'll use a method called 'greasing the groove,' where you do many small sets of 1-2 reps throughout the day or your workout. For example, doing 5 sets of 2 reps is much more effective for building strength than trying and failing to get 4 reps in one set. This is the phase where you build the capacity to handle your own bodyweight with ease.

Month 3: Learning the Skill (Kipping)

If you've hit your 5+ strict reps, you can now learn to kip safely. Because you have the strength foundation, learning the rhythm of the kip swing can happen relatively quickly. After 2-3 weeks of practicing the swing and scapular control drills, you can start adding the pull. You might go from 0 to 5+ kipping pull-ups in just a couple of sessions. It will feel more like a cardio challenge than a strength one. A key warning sign something is wrong is any sharp pain in the front of your shoulder. This is not muscle soreness; it's a signal of joint impingement. If you feel it, stop immediately and go back to building more strict strength.

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Frequently Asked Questions

Strict Pull-Ups for Muscle Growth

Yes, the strict pull-up is far superior for building back and bicep muscle. The controlled movement and significant time under tension create the mechanical stress needed for hypertrophy. For muscle growth, aim for 3-4 sets in the 6-12 rep range, using assistance if needed.

Kipping Pull-Ups and Strength

Kipping pull-ups do not effectively build foundational strength. They are an expression of existing strength combined with skill and endurance. Using kipping to get stronger is like flooring the gas pedal in neutral; it makes a lot of noise but doesn't move the car forward.

Butterfly vs. Kipping Pull-Ups

The butterfly pull-up is a more advanced, cyclical version of the kip used by elite CrossFit athletes for maximum speed. It requires incredible coordination and places even greater stress on the shoulder joint. Do not attempt it until you have mastered at least 15-20 consecutive kipping pull-ups.

The Risk of Injury from Kipping

The primary risk comes from attempting to kip without the necessary foundational strength from strict pull-ups. The uncontrolled eccentric phase can lead to shoulder impingement, rotator cuff tears, or labral tears. Strength is the prerequisite for safety.

Using Kipping to Get Your First Pull-Up

This is a terrible idea and a guaranteed path to injury. It teaches poor movement patterns and puts your joints at risk. Build real strength first with negatives, band-assisted pull-ups, and rows. Kipping is not a progression toward a strict pull-up; a strict pull-up is a prerequisite for a safe kip.